Bob Livingston: Publisher of Trailer Life, MotorHome, and Camping Life Magazines

Gordon White | Thursday, 19 February, 2009

The Publisher of Trailer Life, MotorHome, and Camping Life magazines could have any RV he wanted. Guess what he has…

I met Bob Livingston this past December in the Press Room at the National RV Trade Show in Louisville, Kentucky. Over lunch, I asked Bob if he would be interested in an interview with Truck Camper Magazine about his truck camper lifestyle. I fully expected him to explain how it wouldn’t be possible or appropriate given his position in the industry. To my utter amazement, he accepted without hesitation. What follows is an interview with someone who might be the most passionate truck camper on the planet.

TCM: Take us back in time to your earliest memories that involve RVs.

Bob: My cousins, the Vincents, got me involved with the RV lifestyle. I remember going out to Palm Springs to visit them and they showed me their camper. I remember thinking, “What is that?”. My cousin had an 8.5 foot truck camper and his father also had a 8.5 foot camper. I did not have a whole lot of experience with RVs and fell head over heals over their campers. What a great idea.

Not long after that, I happened to buy a van that was to be used to help me and my wife, Lynne, fix up a house. Instead of fixing up the house, I built a camper out of it. There was an RV supply store nearby where I got my windows, dinette, paneling, sink, entertainment system, and furnace. It was very well equipped and I was enamored with the project.

I used that van for a while, but it wasn’t what I really wanted. That was when I happened to see a copy of Camper Coachman in a doctor’s office. I thought, “Hey, there’s a whole magazine on this stuff”. Then I saw that the magazine was published right down the street in North Hollywood, not far from where I lived. So I immediately got on the phone and called the office and talked to Art Rouse. I said, “Hey I’m really into this stuff” and he invited me over for an interview and hired me that day.

That was the start of my career in RV writing. I have to admit I was very green. But I fell in love with it. I spent most of my time with Camper Coachman and then Trailer Life. The amazing thing was Art saying, “Yeah, I’ll hire you”. I’ve been on that career path ever since.

TCM: How old were you when that happened?

Bob: I was twenty-two years old. That was 1971. It’s been a love affair with RVs ever since I built that van camper and got hired by Art Rouse.

TCM: So we owe a lot to your cousins for getting you into this RV thing.

Bob: They certainly get a lot of the credit for my career path. We still RV together and are very close. Cousin Freddy has been in the magazine a number of times. I wrote a column about how he always made the best pancakes. When he would go to Escapee and Good Sam rallies people would recognize him and say, “Hey Fred, make us some pancakes”. We made him a sort of folk hero.

TCM: When did you first discover your interest in writing and journalism?

Bob: That started way back in school. I ended up getting into a journalism program and writing sports stories. I was always interested in sports and so sports writing seemed like a logical pathway. My first job was with the Ventura Star. Later I worked with Swimming World Magazine.

I really wanted to be a photographer, but I had to take Journalism 101 before I could take any photography classes. At that time, I really had no interest in being a journalist. I wanted to be a photographer. But the head of the Journalism department told me that I needed to change my mind. Her name was Dr. Ester Davis. I’ll never forget her. I still love photography and hope to get the opportunity to pursue it again.

TCM: Tell us about the early days of publishing Camper Coachman with Publisher, Bill Estes.

Bob: The first day I met Bill, who was the Editor of Camper Coachman, the other employees told me, “You’ll never know that guy”. He was pretty quiet and kept to himself.

Well, we immediately became close friends and have worked together ever since that day. We’ve been the best of buddies since 1971. We’ve participated in all of our families' life cycles. In fact, the guy I was talking to just before you called was Bill. We’re kind of inseparable.

TCM: What was it like working with him?

Bob: Bill was a tough guy to work for. He wanted perfection and he knew how to put a magazine together. He taught me how to do that. He was also a great writer; still is. Instead of taking my articles and re-writing them, he would kick them back to me. He would say, “You need to redo this. Do it again”. He taught me how to be a good editor and writer. I learned about the RV lifestyle from him.

It wasn’t too long before he invited me to go on a trip to Mammoth to go skiing. At the time, Bill had a camper that he built from scratch in his driveway. He built that camper from the ground up. It was a 10.5 or 11 foot camper on a Chevy compartment body bed. It had everything on it. It was way ahead of its time.

From that point on we went on lots of trips together to test rigs. We would find great forest service locations, mostly by rivers off the beaten path. These were places no one would go. We found so many incredible places. The camper allowed us to do that. I learned so much about the RV lifestyle through Bill’s guidance and friendship.

Today, Bill is retired and traveling in a big motorhome. But his heart is still in a camper somewhere off the beaten path near a river in the forest.

TCM: What happened to Camper Coachman?

Bob: You have to look at it historically. In the early days, campers were huge. There were so many manufacturers out there. Campers were the premium type of RV. Then in the early 1970’s they kind of faded away. Motorhomes got into the equation as did travel trailers. As the truck campers faded away, so did the support for Camper Coachman. We folded the magazine into Motorhome life, which was a weird combination.

TCM: A lot of what you and Bill Estes wrote for Camper Coachman is still highly relevant today, almost forty years later. Might it be possible to bring back some of those articles and publish them in Truck Camper Magazine?

Bob: It’s possible. We would need to take each article on a one by one basis.

TCM: When I read Camper Coachman, I’m often amazed that you seemed to get away with more back then.

Bob: We did get away with a lot more. The industry seemed to be more thick-skinned then they are today. It’s a different world now. And RVs are much more expensive, so we can’t get away with as many crazy schemes as we used to.

TCM: As the Publisher of the most established and read magazines in the RV industry, you could have any RV you want. So why do have a truck camper?

Bob: It is true that I could have any rig I want. And I have owned a lot of rigs. But you know, I guess the bottom line is that the RV, to me, represents a lifestyle of freedom of movement, freedom of travel, and freedom of wandering. To me, getting away from it all means going to places that are the most beautiful places on earth. You can’t take large rigs there. You need a truck and camper combination with four-wheel drive to go where we love to go.

Don’t get me wrong. I love motorhomes. I get to be in them a lot and I have access to motorhomes all the time. If I want to go on a motorhome trip, I can have my pick. I choose to own a truck camper because of the versatility. We love to snow camp and forest camp. I have all the conveniences of home in my camper. It may take four wheel drive to get to where we’re going, but we’re not roughing it. I’m still living in luxury with everything I need.

Bill and I would explore the National Forest places and have some of the greatest times of our lives with our families. One of our favorite trips was snow camping over Thanksgiving with our families. The campers gave us a feeling of exploration and adventure. When I get into my camper I get the feeling like I’m going someplace new and exciting.

TCM: Is that feeling of excitement unique to truck campers for you?

Bob: Yeah. There’s just nothing better. Bill and I still talk and drool over our trips. Stream-side and secluded with everything you need from home. There’s nothing better. It’s the best.

You’re not going to take a forty-foot motorhome over a mountain pass in a blizzard. But I’ve taken my truck camper across Donner Pass with 100 mile per hour wind gusts and near zero visibility. We got over the pass with white knuckles, but we got over safely. I can’t imagine doing that in any other kind of rig.

The campers gave us the adventure that we needed as RV enthusiasts. We are adventurous people. We want to see what’s around the next bend. We got into trouble many, many times. I hate to think about it. But we always survived. I can’t think about not owning a truck camper. It’s difficult to even think about not having a camper. My wife and I have talked about it. All of our friends have changed over to big motorhomes. I even have a guy in town that wants to buy my camper. It would be pretty easy. I just can’t imagine it.

TCM: Are there other diehard truck camper folks within Affinity Group?

Bob: No, I’m the odd ball. Bill and I used to be the odd balls. We both had Lance campers. I also had a small 8.5 foot S&S camper. I thought I wanted a small camper with only a bathroom, not a shower. Then I wanted to make it fully self-contained with a shower. I called the factory and they said I couldn’t do it. I said, “really?”. Then I tore apart the bathroom, installed a china toilet, and laid a shower pan. That shower pan was so stout that it bounced off the pavement when we accidentally dropped it. That was a fun project.

I later sold that camper to a writer who works with us, Fred Pausch. Fred found the camper through an Autotrader ad where I had advertised the camper. When he called about the camper, it was me. He loves that camper.

TCM: I know Fred. He and Jeff Johnston stayed with me for many, many hours after my car accident at Louisville. Those guys are aces in my book. Tell us about your current camper rig.

Bob: It’s a Lance 1161 side door. I ordered it from Lance with a bunch of additional stuff on it. I also have a four wheel drive Dodge truck. I never take the camper off the truck. It would be tough to remove it actually because things are hard wired. It’s a dedicated truck and camper package.

TCM: What extras did you have Lance install?

Bob: A dome satellite system, three solar panels, and XM radio for starters. All that stuff is wired into the camper nice and clean. Norm Jacobson told me that I wanted so much crap on my roof that they had to mock up my roof on the floor to see where everything would fit. Lance made it work. They had to move the air conditioner back a bit. They did a great job. There’s almost no room to walk around up there, especially since I added a storage pod. That’s why no one is allowed on my roof but me. I know where to walk.

TCM: Tell us about your solar system.

Bob: I wouldn’t have a rig without solar. All my stuff is AM Solar.

TCM: That’s funny. We just did a story with them.

Bob: I’ve been dealing with the Holders for years and years. My camper works so well. It’s loaded with every factory option, then all the other stuff. I also have dual Lifeline batteries, which at the time was a custom addition since the original camper design called for only a single battery compartment. It took me seven hours to wire my battery compartment. It’s all very custom.

TCM: You really enjoy being hands-on with your campers.

Bob: That’s one of the things we love about them. I remember camping with Bill and my furnace crapped out. It was a cold night in Sequoia National Park so we put my kids in Bill’s rig and took the furnace out. We took it apart, fixed it, and put it back. You learn things when you take them apart.

Bill and I loved the self-containment aspect of campers. We would pull water out of a creek and into our campers. We had golf cart batteries that we would charge by running the engine at a fast idle using a brick on our truck’s accelerator pedal. Today we have solar. My generator only has 1.5 hours on it. I keep it working, but I never use it. I should take it out and use the compartment for other things. If I need a generator, I could take a Honda 2000. Even if we go somewhere that has hook-ups, I rarely actually fully hook-up. Why do I need hook-ups? I’m self-contained.

TCM: We should do a story on your rig someday.

Bob: We should.

TCM: Are you able to take off your Publisher hat when you go truck camping for pleasure or does always seem to stay with you?

Bob: It’s tough. It’s really tough, and I’ll tell you why. I am one of the few lucky people who loves what he does for work. The RV lifestyle is also my passion outside of work. It’s tied into my life very tightly. It’s hard go RVing and not always think about story ideas, new things going on in the industry, and new products. My mind is always working with those things. It doesn’t go away and that’s part of the deal. But it’s a good deal.

All I live for is to get into my camper and go traveling. Right now I’m chomping at the bit because I haven’t been in my rig for so long. It’s been a couple of months. I have three trips planned in March.

Traveling in a truck camper is the preferred way of traveling for me. I’m telling you straight out and honest that if someone offered me a night in a luxury hotel or my camper, I’d take my camper. If someone offered me a fancy cruise or my camper, I’d take my camper. I’d rather be out with my camper making dinner on my bar-b-que then stay in the finest hotel and eat at the finest restaurant any day. People know that about me. I’m an outdoorsman. I can’t even sit in my house. Ask my wife. She’ll tell you that I’m always outside. The only time I prefer a motorhome or 5th wheel to my truck camper is if we’re traveling in rainy weather and can’t be outside, or when we’re planning some type of shindig where we will be hosting a number of people inside for dinner.

TCM: Since you’re so passionate about truck campers and the truck camping lifestyle, do you read Truck Camper Magazine?

Bob: All the time. I’ve been watching your website and what you’re doing since the beginning. I read Truck Camper Magazine because I love being around other people who love truck campers. We’re kind of a unique fraternity.

TCM: What do you tell people when they ask you why you have a truck camper?

Bob: I guess the best answer is that I like it. Maybe I’m strange. It does surprise a lot of people. When I go camping I’m pretty visible and I meet a lot of readers. It really shocks them when they see I have a truck camper. I get a kick out of it. But when I make reservations at campgrounds, I never tell them what I’m driving. Too often they automatically put you in the least desirable places in the campground. That really bugs me.

TCM: That bugs me too. As someone on the front lines of how RVs are marketed and sold, why do you think truck campers are a relatively small part of the overall RV industry?

Bob: I think it’s because there’s so much else out there now. Campers were a big deal when there really wasn’t much else out there. Most people probably got excited about campers back then because of the kind of lifestyle they represented. Now campers represent somewhat of a sacrifice in convenience and livability, when compared to other types of rigs. Most consumers don’t want to sacrifice those things. They want to have a lot of livability on the road.

And let’s face it, for more than two people truck campers are not the most convenient option. It’s more difficult to load a camper than to hook up a trailer or jump into a motorhome. Furthermore, a truck and camper combination can get expensive.

I think it’s a matter of those things and the fact that fewer people today want to take advantage of back country and off the beaten path locations. They’re not comfortable with that kind of travel. They just want space inside and the security of a populated campground. I honestly don’t know any other reason for it.

TCM: Wow, this is turning into the Dr. Phil reality check truck camper interview.

Bob: That’s funny. I’ve had a lot of people think that I need help for preferring a truck camper. Truck campers are very different than the alternatives. Maybe that makes camper enthusiasts a bit different.

TCM: We’re different all right. Your title is Senior Vice President of Affinity Group and Publisher of Trailer Life, MotorHome, and Camping Life Magazines. As someone who has a full life just publishing one magazine, how do manage to publish three?

Bob: Well, I’m a good juggler. When you love what you do, you can do more. I constantly think about the RV lifestyle and RVs. That makes it easier to work as much as I do. And much of the credit has to go to my great staff.

TCM: Don’t rub it in.

Bob: Yeah, you’re a guerilla operation. But that’s fun too. If I were in your shoes I’d be having a lot of fun.

TCM: And I most certainly am. Do you ever miss the days when you were just a writer and photographer?

Bob: Absolutely. I still keep a hand in it. I still write columns. As Publisher, I like to be in the trenches. I don’t want to spend ALL my time behind a desk. I want be out there with people camping. That’s where I get ideas and meet new friends and that’s what keeps the lifestyle so compelling. There are no better people in the world than RV people.

TCM: Sounds like our mutual friend and professional RV reviewer writer, Jeff Johnson, has it pretty good.

Bob: Jeff Johnston is a happier guy than the one sitting behind a desk. The most fun you can have is to be a writer and photographer getting out in RVs and writing about your experiences.

TCM: Would it be possible for me to occasionally guest write in Trailer Life on behalf of the truck camper community?

Bob: Yes, I would be interested in that. Truck campers are not our biggest source of readers, but we do have a good number of them. Let’s work on that.

TCM: Thanks Bob. This was a lot of fun.